Patricia Churchland on Neuroscience and Morality (BSP 81)

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Patricia Churchland (photo by Nines Minquez)

 

BSP 81 marks the return of philosopher Patricia Churchland, who I first interviewed back in Episode 55.  Our recent conversation focuses on her latest book, Braintrust: What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality.  We discuss the historical background and contrast Churchland's approach to that of Sam Harris in The Moral Landscape.  Then Professor Churchland discusses how recent discoveries in neuroscience are shedding light on the evolutionary origins of morality.

It's a fascinating conversation that you won't want to miss. 

 

 

 

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Miguel Nicolelis, MD, PhD (BSP 79)

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Dr. Miguel Nicolelis at Duke University is pioneering brain-machine interfaces.  In his book, Beyond Boundaries: The New Neuroscience of Connecting Brains with Machines---and How It Will Change Our Lives, he puts his groundbreaking work into an historical context.  I discussed his book briefly in BSP 78, but I have now posted an in-depth interview.  The focus of our conversation is on why his work challenges longstanding assumptions about the primacy of the single neuron in brain function.


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Neurobiology of Placebos with Fabrizio Benedetti (BSP 77)

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Fabrizio Benedetti, MD

 Fabrizio Benedetti is one of the world's leading researchers of the neurobiology of placebos.  In a recent interview (BSP 77) he explained to me that he believes that "today we are in a very good position to describe, from a biological and from an evolutionary approach, the doctor-patient relationship, and the placebo effect, itself."

To appreciate Dr. Benedetti's work, one must first realize that his approach differs from that of the typical clinical trial.  As he observed, "To the clinical trialist, a placebo effect means any improvement which may take place after placebo administration.  To the neurobiologist, a placebo response, or placebo effect means only something active in the brain happening after placebo administration: learning, anxiety reduction, activation of reward mechanisms."

In contrast, he explains, "The real placebo response, the real placebo effect is a psychobiological phenomenon.  It is something active happening in the brain after placebo administration: like learning, like anxiety reduction, and such like." Brain Science Podcast #77 provides an introduction to this complex, but fascinating topic.

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References

  • Benedetti F, Mayberg HS, Wager TD, Stohler CS, Jon-Kar Zubieta J (2005) Neurobiological Mechanisms of the Placebo Effect. The Journal of Neuroscience, 25,10390-10402. (Full article)

  • Benedetti F (2009) Placebo Effects: Understanding the mechanisms in health and disease. Oxford University Press.

  • Benedetti F (2011) The Patient's Brain: The neuroscience behind the doctor-patient relationship. Oxford University Press.

  • Levine JD, Gordon NC and Fields, HL (1978) The mechanisms of placebo analgesia. Lancet, 2, 654-7. (Abstract)

  • Levine JD, Gordon NC and Fields, HL (1978) “The mechanisms of placebo analgesia.” Lancet, 2, 654-7. (Abstract). See also a follow-up paper: Levine JD, Gordon NC, Bornstein JC, and H L Fields HL (1979) “Role of pain in placebo analgesia.” Proc Natl Acad Sci76(7): 3528–3531. (full text)

  • Volkow, ND, Wang JG, Ma Y, Fowler JS, Zhu W, Maynard L et al. (2003) Expectation enhances the regional brain metabolic and the reinforcing effects of stimulants in cocaine abusers. Journal of Neuroscience, 23, 11261–8. (Full text)

  • de la Fuente-Fernández R, et al. (2001) Expectation and Dopamine Release: Mechanism of the Placebo Effect in Parkinson's Disease. Science293, 1164. (Abstract)

  • Benedetti F, Colloca L, Torre E et al. (2004) Placebo-responsive Parkinson patients show decreased activity in single neurons of the subthalamic nucleus. Nature Neuroscience, 7, 587-88. (Abstract)

  • Herrnstein RJ, (1962) Placebo Effect in the Rat. Science138, 677-678.

  • Linde K, Witt CM, Streng A et al. (2007) The impact of patient expectation in four randomized control trials of acupuncture in patients with chronic pain. Pain, 128, 264-71. (Abstract)

Announcements

Corrections

  •  32:48 only NON-members are eligible to get a free audiobook download from our sponsor at http://audiblepodcast.com/brainscience.

  • Dr. Benedetti’s first book is called Placebo Effects, not Placebo “responses”.

  • Special Thanks to Lori Wolfson for finding these mistakes and correcting them in the episode transcript.

Send me feedback at gincampbell at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com

David Eagleman on The Secret Lives of the Brain (BSP 75)

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David Eagleman, PhD

In his new book, Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brainneuroscientist, David Eagleman, describes consciousness as "the smallest player in the operations of the brain" (page 5) because most of what the brain does is outside conscious awareness (and control).  In a recent interview (BSP 75), Dr. Eagleman reviews some of the evidence for this startling position, as well as the implications both for the average person and for social policy.

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References:

Related Episodes of BSP:

  • BSP 13: Our first discussion of unconscious decisions.

  • BSP 15: Interview with Read Montague, PhD, author of Why Choose This Book?: How We Make Decisions.

  • BSP 19: Review of Gut Feelings: The Intelligence of the Unconscious, by Gerd Gigerenzer.

  • BSP 42: Review of On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not, by Robert Burton.

  • BSP 43: Interview with Robert Burton, MD.

Send me feedback at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com.

Brain Networks with Olaf Sporns (BSP 74)

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Networks of the Brain by Olaf Sporns is an excellent comprehensive introduction to the use of Network Theory to study both the brain and the nervous systems of invertebrates.

In Episode 74 of the Brain Science Podcast, I interviewed Dr. Sporns (Indiana University) about some of the key ideas in his book.  Network Theory is becoming increasingly important as a tool for dealing with the massive amounts of data being generated by current techniques, such as brain imaging.  It is also a valuable tool for dealing with the fact that nervous systems consist of multiple scales (from the molecular level up to billions of neurons), which can not be reduced to a single scale.

While Networks of the Brain will be of greatest interest to those working in neuroscience and to those with a background in fields like engineering, mathematics, and computer science, this interview provides an introduction for listeners of all backgrounds.


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Links:

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Related Episodes:

  • BSP 31: Interview with György Buzsáki, author of Rhythms of the Brain.

  • BSP 46: Discussion of Brain Imaging, including Diffusion Imaging.

  • BSP 56: Interview with Dr. Eve Marder about the use of circuit theory in neuroscience.

  • BSP 61: Mapping the Brain (and generating huge amounts of data).

Announcements:

The Brain Science Podcast app is available for iPhone, Android, and iPad. If you have purchased the iPhone version, it will now work on your iPad (no additional purchase needed). The iPad is the perfect device for reading episode transcripts, especially if you want to read along as you listen.

Contact Dr. Campbell:

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Embodied Cognition with Lawrence Shapiro (BSP 73)

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In his new book, Embodied Cognition, Dr. Lawrence Shapiro provides a balanced introduction to embodied cognition's attempts to challenge standard cognitive science.  His interview in Episode 73 of the Brain Science Podcast is a discussion of a few of his book's key ideas. It also continues our ongoing exploration of the role of embodiment. 

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Related Episodes:

  • BSP 25: Embodied Artificial Intelligence with Dr. Rolf Pfeifer.

  • BSP 36: Introduction to Embodied Cognition with Dr. Art Glenberg.

  • BSP 58: "Extended Mind" with philosopher Alva Noë.

  • BSP 66: Computational cognitive science with Dr. Randy Gallistel.

Some scientists mentioned in this episode:

References:

Announcements:

Send feed back to Dr. Campbell at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com

Celebrating 4 Years of the Brain Science Podcast (BSP 71)

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The latest episode of the Brain Science Podcast (BSP 71) is our 4th annual review episode.  As usual, I review highlights from this year's interviews, but this year I added a new feature: my personal reflections on how the Brain Science Podcast has impacted my life.  This episode also contains a special announcement for UK listeners.

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    New episodes of Brain Science are ALWAYS FREE and remain FREE for approximately 6 years. See the individual show notes for more information

Listen in your Favorite Audio app: Audible, Amazon music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and many more.

Major Topics from Season 4:

  • Emotions with Jaak Panksepp (BSP 65).

  • Memory with Randy Gallistel (BSP 66).

  • Consciousness with Thomas Metzinger (BSP 67).

  • Alzheimer's Disease with Peter Whitehouse (BSP 68 and Books and Ideas 36).

  • Glia Cells with R. Douglas Fields (BSP 69).

  • Pop Psychology Myths with Scott Lilienfeld (BSP 70).

References:

Announcements:

  • The Brain Science Podcast app is now available for both iPhone and ANDROID (NEW!)

  • Be sure to subscribe to my Books and Ideas podcast. The next episode will come out in December.

  • The next episode of the Brain Science Podcast will come out in January 2010. 

Send me feedback at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com.

Exploring Glial Cells with R. Douglas Fields (BSP 69)

Recent research has discovered that glial cells (the non-neuronal cells that make up about 85% of the cells in the human nervous system) actually do more than just support neurons.  In Episode 69 of the Brain Science Podcast, I explore some of these recent discoveries with pioneering researcher, R. Douglas Fields, PhD.  Dr. Fields is the author of The Other Brain: From Dementia to Schizophrenia, How New Discoveries about the Brain Are Revolutionizing Medicine and Science.  The Other Brain provides a compelling introduction to this exciting new field.  It is aimed at general readers, but it should also be on the must-read list for all students of neuroscience.

How to get this episode:

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References:

  • The Other Brain: From Dementia to Schizophrenia, How New Discoveries about the Brain Are Revolutionizing Medicine and Science, by R. Douglas Fields (2010).

  • Glial Neurobiology: A Textbook, by Alexei Verkhratsky and Arthur Butt (2007).

  • Bullock, T. H., Bennett, M. V., Johnston, D., Josephson, R., Marder, E., Fields, R. D. "Neuroscience. The neuron doctrine, redux." Science 310. 5749 (2005): 791-3.

  • Perspectives.

  • Bullock, T. H. (2004) The Natural History of Neuroglia: an agenda for comparative studies. Neuron Glial Biology 1:97-100.

  • Fields, R. D. (2006) Beyond the Neuron Doctrine. Scientific American Mind June/July 17:20-27.

Links:

  • The Other Brain website.

  • R. Douglas Fields: Chief and Senior Researcher of the Section on Nervous System Development and Plasticity at the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, which is part of NIH.

  • Dr. Ichiji Tasaki; worked at NIH for over 50 years and was a pioneering researcher of nerve conduction. (See the episode transcript for links to the other researchers that were mentioned in this episode.)

Related Episodes of the Brain Science Podcast:

  • BSP 8: How Neurons Communicate.

  • BSP 56: Interview with Dr. Eve Marder

Announcements:

  • The Brain Science Podcast application for iPhone/Touch now contains transcripts for all episodes.  Your reviews are greatly appreciated.

  • The next new episode of the Brain Science Podcast will come out in September, 2010.

  • Be sure to check out my other podcast Books and Ideas.

  • For more science podcasts go to http://sciencepodcasters.org.

  • Stay informed by subscribing to the BSP Newsletter.

  • Correction: Barbara Strauch is the author of The Secret Life of the Grown-up Brain: The Surprising Talents of the Middle-Aged Mind.  (Note the correct spelling of STRAUCH)

Send me feedback at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com.

Alzheimer's Disease with Dr. Peter Whitehouse (BSP 68)

Brain Science Podcast 68 is an interview with Dr. Peter Whitehouse, co-author (with Daniel George) ofThe Myth of Alzheimer's: What You Aren't Being Told About Today's Most Dreaded Diagnosis.  Alzheimer's Disease originally referred to a relatively rare form of premature dementia, but in recent decades the diagnosis has been expanded to include patients of all ages. This change is not based on science, and in this interview we talk about why being labeled with with Alzheimer's may be doing older patients more harm than good.

Dr. Whitehouse is one of the pioneering researchers in this field, but advocates devoting resources to helping elders with with a wide range of age-related brain changes.  This interview should be of interest to physicians, scientists, as well as patients and their families.  I will be posting a supplemental interview with Daniel George, the co-author of The Myth of Alzheimer's later this month.  (Learn more at http://booksandideas.com)

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References:

Links:

Announcements:

  • Subscribe to the Books and Ideas podcast to get the extra interview with Daniel George.

  • The Brain Science Podcast iPhone application also works on the new iPad, but we are having to re-upload our old episode transcripts.

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Thomas Metzinger Explores Consciousness (BSP 67)

The free podcast version of Brain Science Podcast 67 is now available.  It is an interview with German philosopher Thomas Metzinger, author of The Ego Tunnel: The Science of the Mind and the Myth of the Self , and Being No One.   Dr. Metzinger argues that any credible model for how the brain generates the mind must incorporate unusual human experiences, such as so-called out of body experiences (OBE), and psychiatric conditions.  In this interview we explore how OBE and virtual reality experiments shed light on how the brain generates the sense of self that characterizes normal human experience.

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Links:

Related Episodes of the Brain Science Podcast:

References:

Announcements:

  • BSP 68 will be an interview with geriatric neurologist, Peter Whitehouse, author of The Myth of Alzheimer's: What You Aren't Being Told About Today's Most Dreaded Diagnosis.  The premium version will be available on April 1 and will include an additional interview with his co-author Daniel George.  The free podcast will come out the second week of April.  

  • The latest episode of my Books and Ideas podcast is an interview with best-selling horror writer Scott Sigler.  We discuss the challenges of incorporating accurate science into fiction writing. (Listen to the end to get a coupon code for his book The Rookie.) 

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Memory: Challenging Current Theories with Randy Gallistel, PhD (BSP 66)

Episode 66 of the Brain Science Podcast is an interview with Randy Gallistel, PhD, Co-Director of the Rutgers Center for Cognitive Science and co-author (with Adam Philip King) of Memory and the Computational Brain: Why Cognitive Science Will Transform Neuroscience.

We discuss why read/write memory is an essential element of computation, with an emphasis on the animal experiments that support the claim that brains must possess read/write memory.  This is significant because current models, such as neural nets, DO NOT incorporate read/write memory in their assumptions about how brains work.  It is not necessary to have any background in information theory or computation to appreciate the experiments that are discussed in this episode.

Episode 3 and Episode 12 of the Brain Science Podcast  providebackground information for this episode.

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References and Links:

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"SuperSense": Bruce Hood on Believing the Unbelievable

Episode 34 of Books and Ideas  is an interview with Bruce M Hood, author of SuperSense: Why We Believe in the Unbelievable .

Dr. Hood is a developmental psychologist with a long-standing interest in why people believe weird things.  In SuperSense, he argues that innate cognitive structures (how we think without being taught) give people a natural tendency toward belief in the supernatural.  Our intuitive sense of how the world works is often at odds with the findings of modern science.

In this interview we discuss the evidence for these conclusions and their implications.

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Click here for detailed show notes and to learn more about more free episodes of Books and Ideas.

Affective Neuroscience with Jaak Panksepp (BSP 65)

Episode 65 of the Brain Science Podcast is an interview with Jaak Panksepp, PhD, author of Affective Neuroscience: The Foundations of Human and Animal Emotions.   Dr. Panksepp has done pioneering work on the neural origins of emotions.   In this interview, we discuss how his work challenges some of the common assumptions about emotions and some of the important implications of his discoveries.  New listeners may want to go back and listen to Episode 11 for an introduction to the neuroscience of emotion.

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References:

Scientists Mentioned in this Episode:

Send feedback to brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com.

David Bainbridge on The Teenage Brain (BSP 63)

Episode 63 of the Brain Science Podcast is an interview with David Bainbridge, author of Teenagers: A Natural History.  Our focus is on how the brain changes during the teenage years.  Bainbridge teaches veterinary anatomy and reproductive biology at Cambridge University and has published several other popular science books, including Beyond the Zonules of Zinn: A Fantastic Journey Through Your Brain , which I discussed back in Episode 32.

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"Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?" with Warren Brown (BSP 62)

Warren Brown and Nancey Murphy

Episode 62 of the Brain Science Podcast is an interview with Warren Brown, PhD, co-author (with Nancey Murphy) of Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?: Philosophical and Neurobiological Perspectives on Moral Responsibility and Free Will.  This book was discussed in detail back in Episode 53, but this interview gave me a chance to discuss some of the book's key ideas with Dr. Brown.  We focused on why a non-reductive approach is needed in order to formulate ideas about moral responsibility that are consistent with our current neurobiological understanding of the mind.

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Additional Links and References:

Why Play is Essential to Brain Health with Dr. Stuart Brown (BSP 60)

In Episode 60 of the Brain Science Podcast, Ginger Campbell, MD, interviews Dr. Stuart Brown, author of Play: How It Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination, and Invigorates the Soul Our focus is on the importance of play for normal mental development and psychological health. We also explore the importance of play in adults.

How to get this episode:

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Listen in your Favorite Audio app: Audible, Amazon music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and many more.

Scientists mentioned in the podcast:

  • Anthony Pellegrini, PhD (University of Minnesota): Studies rough and tumble play.

  • Brian Sutton-Smith, PhD (Strong Museum of Play, NY): studies the storytelling aspects of play.

  • John Ratey, MD (Harvard Medical School): author of Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain.

  • Sergio Pellis, PhD (Canadian Centre for Behavioral Neuroscience): has studied rough and tumble play in mice and rats for many years.

  • Marian C Diamond, PhD (University of California-Berkeley): pioneer in the study of effects of enrichment on the mammalian brain. Recent Video.

  • Richard Feynman, PhD (1918-1988): Nobel physicist who is also remembered for finding the cause of the Challenger disaster. (see the video)

  • Roger Guillimen, PhD (The Salk Institute): won the 1977 Nobel Prize in Medicine for "discoveries concerning the peptide hormone production of the brain."

Books about Play and Related Topics:

Useful Links:

Send email to Dr. Campbell at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com.

Interview with Philosopher Alva Noë (BSP 58)

Episode 58 of the Brain Science Podcast is an interview with philosopher, Alva Noë, whose book, Out of Our Heads: Why You Are Not Your Brain, and Other Lessons from the Biology of Consciousness, argues persuasively that our minds are MORE than just our brains.  He says that "the brain is necessary but not sufficient" to create the mind.     

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Show Notes and Links:

Important scientists mentioned in the interview:

  • Paul Bach-y-Rita: pioneering studies in sensory substitution using tactile stimuli to substitute for vision.

  • Held and Hein: experiments with cats showing that development of normal vision requires motor-sensory feedback.

References:

  • Brain Mechanisms in Sensory Substitution by Paul Bach-y-Rita, 1972.

  • Bach-y-Rita, P "Tactile-Vision Substitution: past and future", International Journal of  Neuroscience 19, nos. 1-4,  29-36, 1983.

  • Held, R and Hein, "Movement-produced stimulation in the development of visually guided behavior." Journal of Comparative and Physiological Psychology. 56(5), 872-876, 1963.

  • Held, R.  "Plasticity in sensory-motor systems." Scientific American. 213(5) 84-91, 1965.

Announcements:

  • Special thanks to Diane Jacobs, Jenine John and Lori Wolfson for transcribing all the episodes of the Brain Science Podcast.

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Please send your feedback to brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com.

Does the Limbic System Exist?

A few days ago I received an email from a listener asking me: Does the Limbic System Exist?

The term limbic system was made popular in the late 1970's by Carl Sagan's Pulitzer Prize winning book,The Dragons of Eden; but in recent years, many neuroscientists have come to regard the term as misleading, or worse.  In this essay I will provide a brief historical overview and discuss the scientific objections to the term limbic system.

History

The highly regarded textbook, Neuroscience: Exploring the Brain (3rd edition, edited by Bear, et. al.) provides a brief overview of the history of the "limbic system concept."  It notes that the term "limbic lobe" was introduced back in 1878 by the French neurologist Paul Broca.  Broca was describing the area of the medial brain that surrounds the brain stem and corpus callosum.  By the 1930's, the evidence suggested that many of the structures in this region were involved in emotion.  One expression of this hypothesis was the so-called "Papez circuit" (named after neurologist James Papez).  In 1952, James Maclean introduced the term "limbic system," and in 1973, he proposed his famous "triune theory" of brain evolution, which was later popularized in The Dragons of Eden.

In 1998, Jaak Panksepp made extensive use of the "triune brain" model in his groundbreaking book, Affective Neuroscience: The Foundations of Human and Animal Emotions.  Panksepp emphasized that primates (including humans) share similar emotional circuitry.  This principle has inspired much valuable research into the role of emotion in our mental lives, so that we now recognize that proper functioning of our emotional circuitry is essential to our health.

Thus, the term "limbic system" actually includes two main ideas: the idea that there is a discrete part of the brain that generates mammalian emotions, and the idea that this area evolved as a separate area only in mammals.  In the triune theory of brain evolution, primates (including humans) are seen as having inherited three successive brain structures: the reptilian brain, the limbic system, and the neocortex.

Objections

In Neuroscience, the authors observe that, although the evidence certainly supports the the fact that some of the structures in this region are involved in emotion, the Papez circuit is no longer seen as an accurate description.  More importantly, they state "The critical point seems to be conceptual, concerning the definition of an emotional system.  Given the diversity of emotions we experience, there is no compelling reason to think that only one system--rather than several--is involved.  Conversely, solid evidence indicates that some structures involved in emotions are also involved in other functions..." (page 571).  Thus, they question applying the term limbic system to the emotional system, because it can not accurately be described as a discrete system of components, such as one would describe the visual system.

The second objection to the term limbic system is that it represents a model of primate brain evolution that has largely been discarded.  In Principles of Brain Evolution, Georg Striedter observed that Maclean's "triune brain" theory was "clearly derived" from the work of Ludwig Edinger (1908), who observed that that the forebrain of various vertebrates seemed to differ dramatically, while the lower brain structures appeared to be highly conserved.  The key underlying assumption of the "triune brain" theory is that major brain areas were added on as mammals evolved, but this essentially 19th century viewpoint has been supplanted by modern work in neuroanatomy.

Striedter explains how the idea that "brains evolved by the sequential addition of parts was toppled."   He concludes "By the 1990's, most comparative neuroanatomists believed that all vertebrate brains are built according to a common plan that varies only in its details."  His textbook describes the evidence in support of this "conservative revolution" in great detail. (Streitder, page 35)  Note: Striedter's book was discussed in Episode 47.

Conclusions

The term "limbic system" is clearly falling into disuse among neuroscientists, but seems destined to live on the popular imagination.  The "triune brain" popularized by Sagan and Maclean has an undeniable appeal, partly because it presents a clear and understandable model that corresponds to our intuitive sense of our place in the world.  The problem is that it represents an oversimplified, and possibly misleading picture.  Our brains are much more like those of other mammals than this model suggests.  Also, the emotional system is much more complex and deeply integrated into the other systems of the brain.

Scientists have a strong preference for precise language.  Thus, as described above, the limbic system does not exist, because there is no one clearly defined emotional system in the human brain.  Many neuroscientists (especially those involved in comparative neuroanatomy) also avoid the term because of its association with an outmoded view of vertebrate brain evolution.
 

References

Paul Offit, MD on Vaccine Safety (Extra Podcast)

I am including the latest episode of my Books and Ideas Podcast  (Episode 25) in the feed for the Brain Science Podcast because I think it may be the most important interview I have ever recorded. My guest was Dr. Paul Offit, author of Autism's False Prophets: Bad Science, Risky Medicine, and the Search for a Cure. This book examines the history of on-going controversy about whether vaccines cause autism.

Listen in your Favorite Audio app: Audible, Amazon music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and many more.

I recommend Dr. Offit’s book, Autism’s False Prophets, to everyone because of its thorough examination of the vaccine-autism controversy.  He examines the evidence from both sides, while showing compassion for why parents are easily confused and frightened by claims that physicians and scientists have dismissed.  The book is unlikely to dissuade those who are convinced by the tactics of vaccine opponents, but it will be a valuable resource to parents who want a clear explanation that includes a sober account of the risks of not vaccinating their children.  Physicians and scientists will also benefit from reading this book because it provides an important case study in how lack of scientific literacy can threaten public health.

Review: "Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?" (BSP 53)

Episode 53 of the Brain Science Podcast is a discussion of Did My Neurons Make Me Do It?: Philosophical and Neurobiological Perspectives on Moral Responsibility and Free Will, by Nancey Murphy and Warren S. Brown.  This book challenges the widespread fear that neuroscience is revealing an explanation of the human mind that concludes that moral responsibility and free will are illusions created by our brains.

Instead, the authors argue that the problem is the assumption that a physicalistic/materialistic model of the mind must also be reductionist (a viewpoint that all causes are bottom-up).  In this podcast I discuss their arguments against causal reductionism and for a dynamic systems model.  We also discuss why we need to avoid brain-body dualism and recognize that our mind is more than just what our brain does. The key to preserving our intuitive sense of our selves as free agents capable of reason, moral responsibility, and free will is that the dynamic systems approach allows top-down causation, without resorting to any supernatural causes or breaking any of the know laws of the physical universe.  This is a complex topic, but I present a concise overview of the book's key ideas.

How to get this episode:

  • Premium Subscribers now have unlimited access to all old episodes and transcripts.

  • Buy mp3 for $1.

  • Buy Transcript for $1.

  • New episodes of the Brain Science Podcast are always FREE.  All episodes posted after January 1, 2013, are free.  See the individual show notes for links the audio files.

Listen in your Favorite Audio app: Audible, Amazon music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and many more.

Additional Show Notes

References:

  • Books and Ideas #12 ("The Myth of Free Will")

  • Alice Juarrero, Dynamics in Action: Intentional Behavior as a Complex System.

  • Terence Deacon, The Symbolic Species: The Co-Evolution of Language and the Brain.

  • Terrence Deacon, "Three Levels of Emergent PHenomena," in Nancy Murphy and William R. Stoeger (eds.) Evolution, and Emergence: Systems, Organisms, Persons (OUP 2007) ch 4.

  • Alwyn Scott, "The Development of Nonlinear Science", Revista del Nuovo Cimento, 27/10-11 (2004) 1-115.

  • Roger W. Sperry, "Psychology's Mentalist Paradigm and the Religion/Science Tension," American Psychologist, 43/8 (1988), 607-13.

  • Donald T. Campbell, "'Downward Causation' in Hierarchically Organized Biological Systems." in F. J. Ayala and T. Dobzhansky (eds.) Studies in the Philosophy of Biology 179-186.

  • Steven Johnson, Emergence: The Connected Lives of Ants, Brains, Cities, and Software

  • Robert Van Gulick, "Who's in Charge Here? And Whose Doing All the Work?"In Heil and Mele (eds.) Mental Causation, 233-56.

  • George Lakoff and Mark Johnson, Philosophy in the Flesh: The Embodied Mind and Its Challenge to Western Thought.

  • Ludwig Wiggenstein, Philosophical Investigations.

Other scientists mentioned in the episode:

  • Antonio Damasio: Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain.

  • Arthur Glenberg: interviewed in Episode 36.

  • Rolf Pfeifer: interviewed in Episode 25.

  • Leslie Brothers, Friday's Footprint: How Society Shapes the Human Mind.

  • Raymond Gibbs, Embodiment and Cognitive Science.

  • Andy Clark, Being There: Putting Brain, Body, and World Together Again.

  • Gerald M.Edelmanand Guilo Tononi, A Universe of Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination.

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Send email feedback to Ginger Campbell, MD at brainsciencepodcast@gmail.com